Comments on: Range report: Mossberg 500 12 gauge shotgun

By: dangersecond

dangersecond — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 05:21:18 +0000

What exactly does “shoot to stop a threat” mean? Does it mean “shoot to kill”? Or “shoot to disable”? In general, my use of “wound” means “disable”, not warn or just wound for fun. The people I’ve actually talked to IRL tell me to try to avoid ever firing a gun at another person (duh) but if you have to, try not to shoot to kill and never “double tap” or “confirm the kill” unless you absolutely will not be safe unless that individual is totally, one hundred percent dead. Do people who aren’t white trash ever load shot guns with rock salt? That’s what is commonly done in my family. If you shoot someone with it from a shotgun it will almost always knock them off their feet and put them in enough pain to disable them so you can escape to a safe distance and call that authorities without any real risk of lethal damage. This could be totally wrong though, because I don’t think Luke or Logan ever once read a book about guns. Then again, they’ve both shot people and Logan has shot people to kill (during Nam) and they have a ton of real life experience. So I guess their advice is more practical but they may have no idea what is or isn’t legal. But if not killing people is illegal, I hate America. And I can believe that that’s the case.

By: Nathaniel

Nathaniel — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:41:23 +0000

Mostly it was internet people and actually some of my old friends who have shot them who talked up the recoil. The video game and movie stereotype is of course that it destroys everything instantly but is inaccurate beyond 15 feet!

The legal advice I have seen by people who make a career out of doing it generally says to only shoot if your or another’s life is in immediate danger. Otherwise, don’t, and if you do shoot, shoot to stop the threat, not to wound or scare. I’ve read that shooting someone you perceive to be a threat without the intention of killing them can actually be a very legally dangerous thing to do — that if you do it, it could be taken by a court to mean that you didn’t believe you had sufficient cause to fire in the first place.

For example if you are in a dangerous situation and intentionally shoot to wound (and you admit as much) and the aggressor dies, you can be prosecuted for murder, as the prosecutor can argue that if you were truly in fear of your life you would have shot to stop the threat, not to wound the aggressor, and the fact that you deliberately took a non-lethal shot was evidence of your not really believing it was your only option. I don’t know how common it this, but I’ve read about such cases, and they do happen.

I found books by Massad Ayoob to be a really great resource when I was first finding out about this stuff, and he’s been an expert witness in self-defense shootings and stuff like that.

By: dangersecond

dangersecond — Wed, 28 Oct 2009 04:40:48 +0000

Seriously, what video game or movie suggested to you that you would be defended or knocked on your ass when you fired a shotgun? People do it successfully in every single game or movie ever made except the ones that don’t have shotguns in them. I shot a shotgun for the first time when I was twelve and I didn’t fall over.
Also, there is no point in keeping a shotgun loaded with buckshot. There are plenty of alternative and less dangerous ammos you can fill it with that will disable a person without killing him or her, which is much more responsible gun ownership in my opinion. Especially considering it is extremely difficult to wing someone with a shotgun, which is what you are supposed to do if you have to shoot someone when they are breaking and entering or attacking your family. The only time I ever had my shotgun loaded with buck was when I was “on mattresses” so to speak and I had the big guns out because I thought a specific individual was coming to get me.
And he deserves to get shot with buck shot. In the groin.